"America is ruled by a parallel system of power that operates above and in some ways below our system of democratic governance," says David Talbot in this engaging conversation with University of California-Berkeley professor/poet/diplomat Peter Dale Scott.

Scott's provocative conception of a "deep politics" and a "deep state" within the American democratic system, first articulated in the 1990s, has gained credibility over the years. After the revelations of Wikileaks and Edward Snowden, everyone who wants to can see that U.S. national security agencies have the latitude to pursue their chosen policies regardless of the decisions of the visible Madisonian government. The recent vote on ending NSA's already implemented bulk collection procedures is the exception that prove the world.

Another example: Michael Glennon's perceptive book, National Security and Double Government,  is an exercise in Deep State Studies by a Washington policymaker and a testament to the power of Scott's insights.