IPFS Mike Renzulli

More About: Vaccines and Vaccinations

Vaccinations and Individual Rights

The Los Angeles Times published a harrowing story a short time ago showing parts of the world that have low vaccine rates. There has been some controversy among some libertarian circles I belong to as to the issue surrounding vaccines and how they would apply to the rights of individuals. Some state that vaccines are part of a conspiracy where pharmaceutical and vaccine companies are in bed with the government and they are purposely manufactured poorly which results in children getting autism and people getting a host of diseases and illnesses from the very vaccinations they were administered. When it comes to vaccines and illnesses, like autism, nothing could be further from the truth.
There never has been nor will there ever be any link to vaccines and autism. In terms of vaccine recipients contracting the disease they are supposed to be immunized from, this is a possibility but very remote. John Salamone whose son contracted polio after being given the oral vaccine was able to convince the medical community to change the required or recommended version. Thanks to John Salamone's efforts the injected polio vaccine (which is of better quality) is the one administered to kids and recommended for doctors to use.

In terms of vaccines and how they apply to the principle of individual rights, let's go back to what an individual right is. According to Ayn Rand, an individual right is a principle defining man's freedom of action in a social context. She correctly goes on to point out that the only fundamental right is the right to one's life in which life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action and, subsequently, people engage in activities to further and enhance their own life. The activities to enhance one's own life includes things like getting an education, doing things to stay healthy (ex: exercising or regular medical check ups), getting a job and maybe even starting a family.

She goes on to say that if physical force is to be barred from social relationships, men need an institution (i.e. government) charged with the task of protecting their rights under an objective code of rules. Now in the case of the anti-vaccine movement what they say is very revealing. Despite events like Influenza Pandemic of 1918 and how the flu virus at the time mutated into a deadlier strain killing hundreds of people, they would (most likely) ridicule such a notion despite evidence that refuted their claims about vaccines. Their attitude is very similar to Mary Mulligan (i.e. Typhoid Mary) who was quarantined for the rest of her life even though she promised health officials at the time she would not be a food service worker but did so anyway leading to her infecting many more people.

If an outbreak of a deadly disease that can spread quickly mandating or forcing vaccinations would proper. If people refuse to voluntarily be vaccinated despite being told the threat of the disease outbreak, either do it involuntarily if the person is healthy enough to carry the vaccine or quarantine them. This should only be done, however, as a last resort and it is determined by the CDC or US or state health departments where the outbreak has taken place, that there is not enough herd immunity and that the disease in question is serious enough to people's lives that such action is warranted. This is the same logic England used when it mandated vaccinations in Britain proper during a small pox outbreak that took place there during the 19th Century.

A proper government protects people's rights and in terms of vaccines and it is why when kids attend school they have to be vaccinated since unvaccinated children pose a threat not only to themselves but to the rights of their fellow students and the school faculty. There are states that have religious and conscience exemptions but it is looking like they will go away soon due to the increased cases of whooping cough, small pox and measles all three of which were nearly eradicated until the anti-vaccine movement emerged. Colorado, for example, is on the verge of removing vaccine exemptions due to outbreaks of whooping cough in the state in which young children are the most vulnerable.

For anyone to knowingly refuse to vaccinate oneself despite concrete evidence that vaccines help ward off contagious, life threatening diseases is tantamount to them saying they not only do not care about their life but also contributes to violating of the rights of others. This also includes participating in activities and disseminating information of groups such as the Vaccine Information Network whose information has been thoroughly debunked. The hatred of living if not human life itself ultimately is the basis of anti-vaccine groups. A logic no different than the environmentalist, anti-abortion and eugenics movements. 

12 Comments in Response to

Comment by Ed Price
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Well said, NC.

What's interesting is that there are multitudes of chemicals that could fall into the classification of bleach, and destroy germs, bacteria, and viruses. What makes this even more interesting is that health officials often require a small amount of bleach in bottled water to keep it from going rancid. And where they don't require it, the water bottlers do it voluntarily, to keep themselves from getting hit with all kinds of lawsuits.

MMS is a bleach or bleach derivative. So, why won't the FDA acknowledge it as killing germs, bacteria, and viruses in people, especially in the light of thousands who have received benefits from it? Why won't the even do clinical trials?

When the people finally wake up to the fact that the FDA and the medical have been hiding the cure from them this whole while, they are going to be so angry that who knows what they will do?

Comment by Nick Coons
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It may be true that less expensive or more accessible treatments can cure diseases that somehow elude the very expensive procedures.  It may also be true that these less expensive alternatives are avoided because they are not profitable. The real problem, then, is the FDA.

If I put water in a bottle and sell it, there's no issue.  But as soon as I put any kind of label on it that says claiming that it "cures" or "treats" anything, the FDA is now going to require that I go through a testing process in order to prove my claim to their satisfaction before I can make the claim.

What does this mean?

It means that I, as the water bottle manufacturer, now have to pay about a billion to jump through the FDA's hoops to make sure that my water does what I say it does.  In real life, I can likely demonstrate the validity of my claim for a lot less cost, but this doesn't satisfy the FDA.  Because my costs are so enormous every time I release a product with a new claim, I have to limit what products I develop.  If I can't make back that billion dollars and then some by selling my product, I'll never develop it.

If the cure to something is a common chemical, like bleach (I have no idea if it is or isn't, let's just say), then I know that there's no way I can make back that kind of money selling bleach as a cure because it's a commodity, so I won't even pursue it.  Additionally, existing manufacturers of bleach are barred from advertising or implying in any way that their product is a cure for anything (lest they be subjected to the same outrageous and expensive procedures).

The solutions is to eliminate the FDA altogether, let the market create institutions that will vet the legitimacy of such claims (as they do now with the safety of electronics) and many more less expensive and accessible treatments will become available while simultaneously filtering out any "crack pot" ideas because their tests will reveal them as either ineffective or dangerous.

Comment by Ed Price
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Thanks, Mike. If you hadn't posted the letter, and if you hadn't followed up against the pro-freedom comments in this forum, I probably wouldn't have had reason to comment about Kerri Rivera. Now, at least, people who read this forum have a chance to tell friends and loved ones to check out Kerri, and to make their own decision... a chance to get their kids virtually cured from autism.

Since the medical doesn't have a solution for the autism problem except to live and bear it, and since they don't do or allow clinical tests of MMS, the only answer is that MMS works, but is too profit-dangerous for the medical to even allow it to be suggested, if they can help it. In fact, it works so well that thousands are being cured all over the world of all kinds of stuff, from MMS usage.

So, thanks, again, Mike, for helping to spread the word about MMS.

Comment by Mike Renzulli
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 Kerri Rivera: a woman who (according to the Huff Po article below) claims that chlorine dioxide is the missing chemical that can help cure autism and a host of other diseases but is a mixture of sodium chlorite and citric acid which is tantamount to making bleach. Rivera recommends it be given orally eight times a day and even has a method to administer the mixture via an enema and even for baths too.

Do you really believe this crap? Seriously?!


Comment by Ed Price
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Mercury in vaccines kills pathogens, even in very small dosages. It also kills people. Luckily the people-killing dosages usually have to be larger and accumulated.

The point is, like hospitals provide good services, but also make mistakes to the tune of hundreds of thousands of accidental deaths a year, so vaccines are not all created equal. Some seem to work very well.

On the other hand, consider the Kerri Riviera story http://mmsautism.org/. Google and YouTube "autism mms rivera" and watch her videos. She is NOT completely ignorant regarding the subject of vaccination causing autism in children. Nor is Amy Parker completely wrong about vaccinating people. And that is not the point.

The whole big point is that there are mistakes on the part of people all over the place in both directions. And until the mistakes are resolved, there had better be freedom, SO the mistakes will be resolved.

When a mistake on the side of the anti-vacciners causes a small outbreak, the damage usually is localized and small. When a mistake is made on the part of those promoting vaccination, the damage is usually gigantic, even though it is not reported widely, as in the cases regarding the cures Kerri Rivera is enacting.

At this time of terrorism and anti-terrorism, the general position of Government will lean towards the idea of controlling the people, just to prevent terrorism. Since the medical is deeply entrenched in Government, and since they are virtually trying to downplay and negate the cures people like Kerri Rivera are performing, it would be good if we watch for false flags in the area of Government trying to cause outbreaks in the name of anti-vaccination.

In case you miss it in Kerri Rivera's videos, she has shown that it is the vaccinations of the young and the infants that often co-insides with a sudden development of autism in them.

Comment by Mike Renzulli
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A short time ago, a woman named Amy Parker published an essay (link below) detailing her experience as the child of parents who refused to vaccinate her. Fortunately, she survived and lived to tell about the living hell she experienced growing up having to endure the kinds of illnesses she experienced. This is what the anti-vaccine movement seeks, to make our lives a living hell like this woman experienced. Furthermore, if you are a libertarian and subscribe to the principle of individual rights, there is no reason for you not to vaccinate yourself or your children neither can you justify not doing so by looking to pseudo-scientific sources like Joseph Mercola or groups like the Vaccine Information Network (aka VINE) and the National Vaccines Information Center. Your refusal to vaccinate yourself contributes to violating the individual rights of others and if you do, you have blood on your hands. http://www.slate.com/articles/life/family/2014/01/growing_up_unvaccinated_a_healthy_lifestyle_couldn_t_prevent_many_childhood.html

Comment by Ed Price
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The point is simple. The reason proponents of vaccination, right along with proponents of mandatory and forced vaccination of everyone is, PROPONENTS LOVE THE NON-VACCINATED PEOPLE AS MUCH AS THEY LOVE THE VACCINATED, from their hearts.

Now don't be shy. The real reason you want to vaccinate the people that are against vaccination is, you love them, from your heart, and you don't want to see them harmed, right? After all, you and your vaccinated friends and neighbors don't have anything to fear personally. You can't get the disease. You were vaccinated, right?

Oh sure. Who wants massive deaths of large numbers of the population, brought about by some form of plague? Such a thing could cause great pressure on the society of the vaccinated, because they would be the ones who would be left alive, and would have to clean up the mess of the dead, plague-annihilated non-vaccinated.

No room to bury them all at the cemeteries. Besides, too expensive. Gigantic pits, mass graves, similar to the city dump.

Think of all the loss in IRS tax revenue. And someone would have to fill all the vacant jobs.

NO! Down with freedom. Force vaccinate EVERYBODY, and all the animals, too. Otherwise, the planet just might die.

Comment by Doug Nusbaum
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and yet another article on the amish.   One based on actual information obtained from actual Amish people.


But that would require Visionaerie to have actual use of an actual brain so that he could actually look such things. 

Comment by Doug Nusbaum
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Brilliant response Visionaerie.       Except that it is based on outdated information.  


 Information that is so outdated that I must conclude that you are a dishonest liar.

IN addition, there is abundant evidence that autism has a strong genetic component, and may be related to events during pregnancy. 

As to polio being benign.   Tell that to all the crippled children in Africa who have tonsils  and are crippled.  Hell, tell that to chimps who have gotten polio.

I wish that people like you would be allowed to not vaccinate your children.   With the proviso that you not be covered by insurance for such diseases, and that if deaths occur from said diseases, that you go on trial for negligent homicide, and be required to pay restitution to survivors.   You know, be held responsible and accountable.  

Comment by Brent Bielema
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There is ABUNDANT evidence that vaccines cause autism. Why do the Amish kids HAVE no autism? Because they don't get shot! Read 'Dissolving Illusions' by Dr. Suzanne Humphries -- a fantastic historical review of diseases and shots, proving that vaccines actually increased illness rates. Increased sanitation was the factor that really reduced them. The reason our kids get so many vaccines is because the drug makers and the government want to keep them as wards of the state, coming back for more failing drugs and treatments that do NOTHING to address the cause of illness. There are millions of people who have died of cancer because of the monkey kidney virus in the polio shot program during the 1950s and 1960s. The cancer virus was admitted by Dr. Maurice Hilleman of Merck who worked on the program. The history of vaccination is the history of disease and unnecessary deaths. Wake up and throw off your chemical chains!

Comment by Mike Renzulli
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 Interesting concept, Pure Trust! Tell you what? You, anti-vaccine activists and other libertarians who think like you move to an island with people infected small pox, MMR, polio, etc. Then you can see first hand how your "theory" works.

Comment by Ed Price
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Back before the time of the American Revolutionary War, there were all kinds of political viruses in Britain. King George claimed to be the vaccine cure.

Some people came to America to avoid being vaccinated by King George's politics. King George followed them with his armies of political vaccination. Now, America is being threatened by the political virus that suggests that un-medically-vaccinated people are a threat.

While there have always been groups of folks in America who were against medical vaccination, because of the news that medical vaccination is not what it has been cracked up to be, the numbers have been increasing.

In response, the political virus of King-George-like slavery is trying to overcome the people again. Except that now it is the American Government rather than some British King George doing it to the people.

Time to move again, and form a new, great nation of freedom. But where can we move? All the lands are taken. And space travel isn't practical, yet.

Perhaps we should segregate the whole country, forming some cities that are vaccine free, and some that are not. Of course, the vaccine free people will live longer and be happier, just like America was better off without the King George style of political vaccination, before the American Government started doing it to the people.